Are there any independant studies showing the effectiveness
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HardRuler
New Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Mon Apr 28, 2008 4: 59 pm    Post subject: Are there any independant studies showing the effectiveness
of Atkins.
I recall reading something in JAMA that said the effectiveness is actually a minus 50 % because only about 1 % perpetuate a healthy weight but 50 % repossess even more weight than when they started.
Could you cite me to a peer reviewed clinical study that says Atkins or any other low carb diet works?
Thanks
karenjs
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 544
Footing: San Jose
Mon Apr 28, 2008 8: 06 pm    Post subject:
Here ' s one from Stanford:
http: / / med. stanford. edu / news_releases / 2007 / march / diet. html
And another from Duke University:
http: / / www. cbsnews. com / stories / 2002 / 11 / 18 / health / main529790. shtml
And another article summarizing some studies:
http: / / www. cbsnews. com / stories / 2003 / 10 / 13 / health / main577832. shtml
HardRuler
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Mon Apr 28, 2008 11: 28 pm    Post subject:
I looked at the first article and it did not say how long the weight loss took. This is important because rapid weight loss always causes gallstone and 1 / 3 of the time these gallstones become appropriate unless the patient is prescribed the drug Ursodoil.
The other thing it did not tell was how much of the weight lost was fat, water or muscle. Barry Sears of Tract Diet has made the claim that because his diet effects hormone levels that muscle gain occurs on his diet. I could not make allowances that claim but as a former competitive body builder I have used low carb to drop muscle so that I could compete in a lower weight class. It is recurrently known that low carb does deplete muscle.
I read the other article and again it does not tell what sort of weight was lost. As to cholesterol levels and trigycerides there has been no evidence that cholesterol lowering drugs or low cholesterol vs high cholesterol have any effect on cardio vascular health. People with the so called " good " cholesterol sufer heart disease at the same rate as people with bad cholesterol.
Artery disease is caused by inflammation and damage to the artery walls. Statin drugs are big $$$$$$$ but there is no evidence that they do any good for the patient.
molley
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 839
Locus: VT
Tue Apr 29, 2008 12: 02 am    Post subject:
Hardruler,
If you read Dr. Atkins books, he will point you to some other studies that spell out exactly what kind of weight was lost. There have been many done in Germany.
What an informative post, though I ' m confused why you would put it in an atkins support forum. So you don ' t like the diet despite obviously discerning nothing about it. So don ' t do it. You ' re not going to convince anyone here to stop atkins. Only that you need a better outlet for your energy.... body home plate, maybe?
Best,
Molley
HardRuler
New Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Tue Apr 29, 2008 2: 27 am    Post subject:
[quote= " molley " ]Hardruler,
If you read Dr. Atkins books, he will point you to some other studies that spell out exactly what kind of weight was lost. There have been many done in Germany.
What an informative post, though I ' m confused why you would put it in an atkins support forum. So you don ' t like the diet despite obviously quick-witted nothing about it. So don ' t do it. You ' re not going to convince anyone here to stop atkins. Only that you need a better outlet for your energy.... body pied-a-terre, maybe?
Best,
Molley[ / quote]
I have read several Atkins book and I understand the diet and how it works probably better than Atkins.
I am not trying to convince anyone here to stop Atkins. I would have tried to stop the Jim Jones followers from drinking the Kool Aid either. I was just wondering with the millions and millions of Atkins books sold and the millions and million of people who have done Atkins why obesity rate in the US is still increasing?
What I find even more intriguing is why anyone would think this diet works when the facts say far cry. When the Atkins revolution started the obesity rate was 4 % now it is 67 %. If that is your idea of success by all means keep drinking the Kool Aid. Just make sure in contains plenty of aspertame.
emomoney
Received Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 59
Tue Apr 29, 2008 5: 25 am    Post subject:
HardRuler wrote:
When the Atkins revolution started the obesity rate was 4 % now it is 67 %..
Where are the independent studies to back up your inference that Atkins had anything to do with the 63 % increase in the obesity rate? ( If that ' s even a correct figure )
Last edited by emomoney on Tue Apr 29, 2008 11: 50 am; edited 1 time in total
molley
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 839
Post: VT
Tue Apr 29, 2008 10: 40 am    Post subject:
Hard ruler,
I think the diet works because the diet works. You must have different facts from mine because mine point to feeling better, being thinner and being more cardiovascularly fit. I have better memory, I sleep better, I ' m more energetic and I have way clearer skin. These aren ' t third - hand studies that I ' m citing. Personal experience is more able than your arrogance any day.
You should reread the books, because if you were anything like you are on this forum when you were reading the books, you missed a lot. Including the answer to the original question of this thread.
- Molley
Last edited by molley on Tue Apr 29, 2008 3: 29 pm; edited 1 time in total
heyla44
Conscious Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 84
Location: Yorkshire
Tue Apr 29, 2008 12: 42 pm    Post subject:
Quote:
I have read several Atkins book and I understand the diet and how it works probably better than Atkins.
But you can ' t spell the word ' independent '? Curious...
julie61
New Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 26
Tue Apr 29, 2008 2: 33 pm    Post subject:
My husband has lost 40lbs on Atkins since January. I have lost about 3lbs in the same amount of time yet I have lost several inches and I am wearing clothes that I have not worn in years. May I say that the best diet for you is the diet that works for you and is the diet that you can stay on. If you are annoying with the Atkin ' s way perhaps this is the wrong diet for you.
susan423
New Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 4
Splice Apr 30, 2008 5: 19 pm    Post subject:
heyla44 wrote:
Quote:
I have read several Atkins book and I understand the diet and how it works probably better than Atkins.
How imature!! If you can ' t help her then stay out of it!!! No need to bring in persoanal attacks.
To the op.... Do a search for other low carb sites. I belong to a couple others that would be happy to accommodate you with some real help.
But you can ' t spell the word ' independent '? Curious...
HardRuler
New Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Assemble Apr 30, 2008 7: 30 pm    Post subject:
[quote= " molley " ]Hard ruler,
I think the diet works because the diet works. You must have different facts from mine because mine point to feeling better, being thinner and being more cardiovascularly fit. I have better memory, I sleep better, I ' m more energetic and I have way clearer skin. These aren ' t third - hand studies that I ' m citing. Personal experience is more powerful than your arrogance any day.
You should reread the books, because if you were anything like you are on this forum when you were reading the books, you missed a lot. Including the answer to the original question of this thread.
- Molley[ / quote]
When Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution was first published, the President of the American College of Nutrition said, " Of all the bizarre diets that have been proposed in the last 50 years, this is the most dangerous to the public if followed for any length of time. " [1]
When the chief health officer for the State of Maryland, [2] was asked " What ' s wrong with the Atkins Diet? " He replied " What ' s wrong with... taking an overdose of sleeping pills? You are placing your body in jeopardy. " He continued " Although you can lose weight on these nutritionally unsound diets, you do so at the risk of your health and even your life. " [3]
The Chair of Harvard ' s nutrition department went on record before a 1973 U. S. Senate Select Committee investigating fad diets: " The Atkins Diet is nonsense... Any book that recommends unlimited amounts of meat, butter, and eggs, as this one does, in my opinion is dangerous. The author who makes the suggestion is guilty of malpractice. " [4]
The Chair of the American Medical Association ' s Council on Food and Nutrition testified before the Senate Subcommittee as to why the AMA felt they had to formally publish an official condemnation of the Atkins Diet: " A careful scientific appraisal was carried out by several council and staff members, aided by outside consultants. It became apparent that the [Atkins] diet as recommended poses a serious threat to health. " [5]
The warnings from medical authorities continue to this day. " People need to wake up to the reality, " former U. S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop writes, that the Atkins Diet is " unhealthy and can be dangerous. " [6]
The world ' s largest organization of food and nutrition professionals, [7] calls the Atkins Diet " a nightmare of a diet. " [8] The official spokesperson of the American Dietetic Association elaborated: " The Atkins Diet and its ilk - - any eating regimen that encourages gorging on bacon, cream and butter while shunning apples, all in the name of weight loss - - are a dietitian ' s nightmare. " [9] The ADA has been warning Americans about the potential hazards of the Atkins Diet for almost 30 years now. [10] Atkins dismissed such criticism as " dietician talk ". [11] " My English sheepdog, " Atkins once said, " will figure out nutrition before the dieticians do. " [12]
The problem for Atkins ( and his sheepdog ), though, is that the National Academy of Sciences, the most prestigious scientific body in the United States, agrees with the AMA and the ADA in opposing the Atkins Diet. [13] So does the American Cancer Society; [14] and the American Heart Association; [15] and the Cleveland Clinic; [16] and Johns Hopkins; [17] and the American Kidney Fund; [18] and the American College of Sports Medicine; [19] and the National Institutes of Health. [20]
In fact there does not seem to be a single major governmental or nonprofit medical, nutrition, or science - based organization in the world that supports the Atkins Diet. [21] As a 2004 medical journal review concluded, the Atkins Diet " runs counter to all the current evidence - based dietary recommendations. " [22]
A 2003 review of Atkins " theories " in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition concluded: " When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled, non - peer - reviewed studies, anecdotes and non - science rhetoric. This review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing more than a modern twist on an antique food fad. " [23]
karenjs
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 544
Location: San Jose
Wed Apr 30, 2008 7: 42 pm    Post subject:
Hard Ruler,
You totally lifted that text from someone else ' s website! Someone who also has an ax to grind:
http: / / www. atkinsexposed. org / atkins / 1 / Atkins. htm
I don ' t have time right now to provide lots of references. I will at a later time, but more recent studies ( since 2002 ) show that Atkins and other low - carbohydrate diets are safe and effective.
Here ' s one summary:
http: / / www. ccjm. org / pdffiles / Volek1102. pdf
The American Diabetes Association has reversed its position and now says low - carb and low - fat diets are both fine for up to a year:
http: / / www. diabetes. org / for - media / pr - new - clinical - practice - recommendations - 122807. jsp
If you ' re really interested in finding out about how people lose weight and keep it off in general, and you don ' t mind anecdotal accounts, you could look through the National Weight Control Registry, http: / / www. nwcr. ws /
They keep an extensive database. It would all be correlational data, of course. Some of the people in the registry followed Atkins, some followed other diets, some just increased exercise.
Last edited by karenjs on Wed Apr 30, 2008 10: 12 pm; edited 1 time in total
firelady
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 1506
Wed Apr 30, 2008 8: 42 pm    Post subject: Hi
This guy is just a troll. He is likely quoting old articles of doctors who are elvauating other peoples studies in a way to make them look bad.
I just did a MEDLINE seach on low carbohydrate and diet and all of the direct studies were good results. One really neat health benefit that I did not expect was that a low glycemic index diet protects from stroke and the inflammation factors in your blood are lower on a low carb diet.
The same folks who complain about the low carb diet studies did the veggie diet studies using the Seventh Day Adventist clan. These people do have longer lives ( although their cancer rates are higher even though they do not smoke ). However when you campare them with nonsmokers in the general population they live SHORTER.
HardRuler
New Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Thu May 01, 2008 6: 58 am    Post subject:
Low carb diets are lacking in fiber. Every plant - based food has some fiber. All animal products have no fiber. A lack of fiber increases your risk for cancers of the digestive track ( because transit time is lengthened ) and cardiovascular disease ( because of fibers effect on fat and cholesterol ). It also puts you at a higher risk for constipation and other bowel disorders.
Low carb diets lack sufficient quantities of the the many nutrients / phytonutrients / antioxidants found in fruits, vegetables, legumes, and whole grains, necessary for health and aiding in prevention of cancer and heart disease. In fact, you need these nutrients even more so when you ' re consuming too much fat as is often the case on a low carb high protein diet.
Low carb, high protein diets cause an unhealthy physiological state called ketosis, a type of metabolic acidosis. You may have heard the phrase, " fat burns in the flame of carbohydrate ". Excess acetyl CoA cannot enter the Krebs Cycle ( you remember the old Krebs Cycle ) due to insufficient OAA. In other words, for fat to burn efficiently and without production of excess toxic ketones, sufficient carbohydrate must be available. Ketosis can lead to many health problems and can be very serious at it ' s extreme.
firelady
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 1506
Fri May 02, 2008 4: 03 pm    Post subject: Hi
1. Low carb dieters eat substantially more fiber than the general population. Flax meal, inulin, nuts, dark greens and other ingredients we use are high fiber.
2. Nuts and seeds also contain lots of fiber and good oils.
3. Non starchy veggies are a huge portion of an OWL diet. Again I eat more greens and cruciferous veggies than anyone else I know. Cruciferous veggies are high in soluble fiber and vitamins and sulforaphane, diindolylmethane and selenium. These last three have anti - cancer proprties. Giving up all of that white rice and french fries is really going to hurt my health.
( and by the way my LDL is 48 what is yours )
PS. I think the moderators should rid us of this troll. He obviously does not know or care what we eat and is likely some lonely WEB surfer who gets his kicks trying to aggrevate people by finding a WEB site and posting outrageous opposite views.
Site
Site
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 111
Fri May 02, 2008 4: 24 pm    Post subject:
Hi Firelady
The off - topic posts were deleted. Ironically though, despite the rant, this site has no vested interest in Atkins and operates at a loss. And we have a board devoted to South Beach. So what the heck [ / icon_smile. gif]
wheresmycoat
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Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 322
Fri May 02, 2008 4: 35 pm    Post subject:
Curious as to how the profitability of the site is relevant to the topic at hand?
Site
Site
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 111
Fri May 02, 2008 4: 41 pm    Post subject:
It makes the rant even more bizarre... and unreasonable.
karenjs
Senior Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 544
Location: San Jose
Fri May 02, 2008 8: 50 pm    Post subject:
Hardruler ' s post that starts with " Low carb diets are lacking in fiber " is another example of taking text from a copyrighted website, without providing the source.
Here ' s the source:
http: / / www. worldfitness. org / low - carb - diet - problems. html
copyright 2004 by Greg Landry, M. S. www. Landry. com
It should be noted, that this source seems to be based on an incomplete or inaccurate understanding of what the Atkins diet includes. He seems to think we don ' t eat vegetables and live mostly on meat. ( Absolutely wrong, of course. )